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Are Southerners the reason American WN is failing?

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Will Williams

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Are Southerners the reason American WN is failing?

PostWed Nov 13, 2013 1:45 pm

That's what Northerner Alex Linder claims at his VanguardNewsNetwork forum, here and repeated all over his board: (post #82)

Whites must be organized by courageous and disciplined men. Organization and discipline matter more than almost anything, but as these are not Southern virtues, they are downplayed by Southern-legacy white nationalism, which tries to turn everything into a fistfight.

What in hell is Linder talking about? I don't see any courage coming out of his undisciplined, anonymous VNNers, mch less any viable organization. VNN is known for the fighting among posters there, which is encouraged by Linder by his policies.
We won't be tolerating that sort of behavior here at WB.

The same spirit that lost the South the war is alive today. Side point is we need moral courage even more than physical courage, yet it's rarer.

Sounds like something I've been saying for years. Except I mean it.
Here's some more from Linder a couple of posts later:

In general it is quite wrong to go on about [pansies] and heroes and such. This is the Southern way, and it is the way of failure. What we need begins with a definition. Who we are...

like Dr. William Pierce, a Southerner born and bred, and a man Mr. Linder likes to characterize as a loser, spelled out:


Originally published as a series in his newspaper and magazine, this book is the final work of one of the most famous leaders of the White nationalist movement in America. Starting with the evolutionary origin of the White race, this book focuses on the the Classical Grecian and Roman civilizations, the White nations of the Middle East, the rise of the Germanic powers, the Vikings, Christianity, Nazi Germany, World War II and the racial crisis facing the West today. It contains, characteristically for the author, a highly critical appraisal of Jewish influence in Europe, and ends with a proposal of how the essence of the west can be saved. The book contains the entire text and almost all the illustrations which accompanied the original. It has also been fully indexed.

What we want. Then it develops an organization and a plan. Then it goes after support, winning people over not by appealing to them, but by making them see they have a role in this heroic quest to liberate their race.

Dr. Pierce had a plan for organizing our race; Mr. Linder does not (other than beating up on good men like Pat Buchanan and Dr. Kevin MacDonald, et. al.).

Linder criticizes Christianity as being the biggest problem for White Nationalism -- even ahead of "dumb" Southerners -- yet what is the makeup of VNNers, according to this poll: ... ost1615999

View Poll Results: In what religion do you believe?
Orthodox Christianity 2 5.26%
Catholic Christianity 4 10.53%
Protestant Christianity 5 13.16%
Odinism 4 10.53%
Slavic Paganism 0 0%
Greek Paganism 0 0%
Celtic Paganism 1 2.63%
Atheism 11 28.95%
Hinduism 2 5.26%
Budhism 1 2.63%
Zoroastrianism 0 0%
Other white religions 8 21.05%
Voters: 38

This current sampling shows nearly 1/3 of VNNers are Christian, and that doesn't include Identity Christians. About the same number claim to be atheists; 10% Odinists, with a couple of Hindus and a Buddhist thrown in for good measure. There are no Cosmotheists, the religion Dr. Pierce founded for Whites exclusively, nor any followers of Creativity, the Whites-only religion founded by Ben Klassen. Both of those men, by the way, headquartered their operations in Southern Appalachia: the South.

How does the reader suppose Linder will organize this hodgepodge into a disciplined, courageous group of fighters for the race? We will not have his problem of crass inconsistency here at White Biocentrism because our goal is to attract White men and women who reject the Abrahamic religions and embrace the teachings of men like Dr. Pierce and Ben Klassen -- especially Southern men and women.

Another thing: although I can't search Mr. Linder's forum to find it, I recall seeing another poll of VNNers asking them where they live. A majority or near majority were from the South, oddly enough -- the very people Linder criticizes as dumb losers who have no moral courage. :roll:


Re: Are Southerners the reason American WN is failing?

PostSun Dec 29, 2013 7:10 pm

It's been my experience that American WN is failing because of the dumb losers and inbred misfits (from all over the place) that are allowed to take root and nest within WN organizations. Organizations by and large tend to go for "quantity" over "quality," and the ones that do seem to go for "quality" don't really have a process in place to deal with bad seeds that slip in until they've done a lot of damage to morale.

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Re: Are Southerners the reason American WN is failing?

PostFri Jan 23, 2015 2:52 pm

I am neither excessively pro or anti when it comes to Alex Linder.

That is because, at times, he says something better than anyone else - albeit rarely.

As to his remarks regarding "Southerners" or "Southrons" (my birth state fought for the CSA) I view it this way: I do not believe geographical location should be emphasized in the WN Cause, any more than what one's religion is, or whether one normally votes Republican or Democrat, or even one's stance regarding non-racial issues, such as homosexuality. All those elements, in my opinion, dilute both our case and our cause in the public eye. As a sidenote, Missouri is a borderline Southern state anyway, and was even a slave-holding state during the Civil War. So Linder's protest is stretching it a bit.

Could a modus vivendi be reached with individuals like Linder? If done right, I believe so. one attempts it, not in any serious manner. Now, not being an NA member, some may think me presumptuous when I make this suggestion: that the NA, once it is on its feet, provide a decent used vehicle backed by moderate funding so that an "emissary" or "ambassador", armed with a laptop, could work his way across the nation, hitting the doorsteps of people like Linder and others, in order to come to some sort of solid consensus regarding the Cause. This emissary would be intelligent, well-spoken, photogenic, possibly a man/woman pair, essentially performing the WN equivalent of emissaries from a country's government. This is something I'm not sure has been done and for those who believe it would be a waste of time, perhaps so. But if it IS a waste of time, meaning rational, reasonable encounters between pro-white advocates must invariably end in scorn and enmity, rather than solid cooperation, then how do we expect to win the War at all?


Re: Are Southerners the reason American WN is failing?

PostFri Jan 23, 2015 5:42 pm

RebelWithACause wrote:It's been my experience that American WN is failing because of the dumb losers and inbred misfits (from all over the place) that are allowed to take root and nest within WN organizations. Organizations by and large tend to go for "quantity" over "quality," and the ones that do seem to go for "quality" don't really have a process in place to deal with bad seeds that slip in until they've done a lot of damage to morale.

Indeed, as "WN" is just a nominal "place-holder" for being "pro-White" and for little else.

We aim to go for "quality" over "quantity" and intend to have a "process in place" to deal
with any "bad seeds that slip in" by an using an ounce of prevention upfront that prevents
any need for the pound of cure otherwise necessary later by not being selective at the get-

Dr. Pierce's Cosmotheism is the "microfilter" that will prevent those viruses from entering
our NA and WB and NV and leadership strata and allowing any such damage to our morale.
We have learned from these mistakes and failures of many others in the past and aim to
correct for them this time.

If you believe, as we all do believe, here:
Then, please join your strength to ours and lets start building the National Alliance to levels
that the late Dr. Pierce would have been very proud of himself to have achieved once again,
and then, far upwards and beyond, and ever towards the Creators' own Self-Realization in a
Personal Godhood via The Path and of which is also OUR CAUSE.

Best regards,


The Iron Wolf

Re: Are Southerners the reason American WN is failing?

PostFri Jan 23, 2015 7:35 pm

Hi Will,
Well you know as an individual from western NC and of older values I don't think southerners in general make poor WN's.However there's the common kind of southerner that does more harm than good.They're Baptist as a commonly practiced religion.They or their kids drive around in a pick-up truck with a confederate flag.They would make it a point to commit a hate crime yet you can't get it through to them that approach creates no effective results.Wearing skin tight jeans and cowboy boots as the term Redneck people so commonly use.Generally short tempered and use of courtesy of manners varies drastically.You ask them in an depth question of why they hate Jews they say 'because they killed Jesus' or a way off base uneducated answer that's not part of the real problem.They don't strike you as a country boy or farmer you see them as an ignorant individual with a chip on their shoulder always.These individuals I consider to be the 'KKK Fare'.Though the KKK has many members but they attract a criminal more than a deep-thinker.The KKK is concerned as a White Nationalist group but the key to radicalizing is factual education.What I feel the Klan teaches is 'clueless motives behind White Nationalism'.Depends on the individual but they meet a Russian they think commy.They meet a German they think Nazi and hate.Appreciation for our European ancestry is not present primarily from these individuals.Someone should remind this narrow-mindedness that our Irish and Scottish ancestors were behind good ol' bluegrass...a strong part of our southern culture and downright uplifting :D .And as the oldest organization they started out committing hate crimes without sitting back and observing.People see that 'KKK aftertaste' and people get the wrong impression of other groups like the National Alliance.But that is why I feel membership in the Alliance would be an effective choice on my end.Intellectual people to interact with whom I feel will create the impact and open more eyes to concerned individuals with rational motives.
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Will Williams

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Re: Are Southerners the reason American WN is failing?

PostFri Jan 23, 2015 9:54 pm

I'm painfully aware of the type of Southerner you describe, TIW. But I've also met Southerners who are some of our best and brightest racial stock, and who reject that bigoted stereotype. We've got good and bad folks wherever Whites live; it's the former who will be attracted to our Alliance. The latter are not interested in our message for the most part, which is good.

The term White Nationalist is so all-encompassing that it includes many who we really do not want in the National Alliance. I dug up a couple of Commentaries by Dr. Pierce in 2002 and had a volunteer transcribe and combine them. Find that transcription here: ... iance.html Lots of other pre-Internet articles by Dr. Pierce are at that blog.

I hope you'll join our Alliance, here:

Here's part of one of Dr. Pierce's American Dissident Voices shows -- Reality Check -- where he talks about a certain type of Southerner. He tells these people the hard truth they need to hear, though it may hurt their feelings:

...Many listeners tell me that I should comment on the efforts of the Blacks, Jews, and liberals to force the White citizens of South Carolina to abandon their flag. The Blacks and their boosters complain that the flag reminds them of the time in the not too distant past when Blacks in the United States were plantation slaves. The Whites reply, "No, no," it's just a reminder of our Southern heritage. "The flag isn't a racist symbol," they say.

Well, of course, I sympathize with the desire of anyone to preserve his heritage or to fly the flag of his choice, but this Confederate flag issue is as much a distraction as the Elian Gonzales issue. It's simply not important. And I say that as a true son of the South. My great-great-grandfather on my mother's side of the family was Thomas Hill Watts, attorney general of the Confederacy under Jefferson Davis and later governor of Alabama. His photograph is on the $10 Confederate bill. He also had been a member of the council of secession which voted for secession from the Union, and then he served as a colonel in the Confederate Army, commanding the 17th Alabama Infantry Regiment in the bloody battle of Corinth, Mississippi. But whether or not his flag continues to fly from various public buildings in the South is completely inconsequential in the face of other things which are happening in the South every day. And you don't have to live in the South to know what those things are; they're happening all over America. One White man murdered by Blacks, one White woman raped by Blacks, one White child terrorized in a school restroom by Blacks, one politician in Washington allowed to go unhanged is a greater tragedy than taking down the Confederate flag from any statehouse.

You know, the various organizations which are busy defending the Confederate flag today always assert that the flag is not a racist symbol. But of course, it is and always has been. My great-great-grandfather, Governor Watts, never heard the word "racist." The Jews hadn't invented it as a term of opprobrium yet. But by every common standard in use today he was a racist. Certainly not all, but many of his fellow Southerners did not approve of the institution of slavery. They would have been happy to be able to outlaw the institution and to ship every Negro and every mulatto and every quadroon to Africa and set them free. But to a man they were racists, by today's media standards. They were racists because they recognized the simple fact of racial differences. Most of them had no animosity toward Blacks before the war: before the Blacks were turned loose to terrorize White Southerners. But if my great-great-grandfather or any other Southern gentleman had seen a Black male put his hands on a White woman or make a suggestive remark to a White woman, he would have drawn his sidearm and put a quick end to that Black without giving the matter a second thought. Of course, Northerners pretty well felt the same way about things. They were as much racists as the Southerners. There just weren't any Southern gentlemen in the North -- or many gentlemen of any sort -- to keep things in order.

If we could use a time machine and go back in time 140 or 150 years and take with us a VCR and a monitor and a few video cassettes of recent Hollywood films or television shows or even news programs with street scenes in Montgomery and Atlanta and Richmond today and play them for my great-great-grandfather and a hundred or so of his most influential friends and explain to them that this is what the Jews would be saturating the consciousness of White Americans with in the future . . . well, if we could do that, they simply wouldn't believe us. They wouldn't believe that their descendants could become so degraded in a mere four or five generations as to permit such things to happen: so degraded as to acquiesce in such things. But if we somehow could convince them that our videotapes weren't fraudulent, they would have understood that much more was at stake than political independence for the South. They would have understood that survival of the race was at stake, and they would have fought even harder and more valiantly than they did, because in those days there was no shame in fighting for one's people, for one's race. Anyway, I bring this up just as a reminder that we aren't the only ones who have failed to focus on the really important issues at hand. Throughout history our people have been distracted by inconsequential issues and have neglected the crucial ones.

So what's more important today than the latest ball game and what happens to Elian Gonzales? Really, it's exactly what was important 140 years ago. My great-great-grandfather and the other leaders of the South should have been concerned first and foremost about the racial issue -- not about economic issues or political issues or anything else. There was a disagreement between the North and the South on the issue of slavery, of course, but there was plenty of common ground on the racial issue. Before the war neither Northerners nor Southerners wanted racial mixing. If it hadn't been for the economic aspects of slavery, an agreement very likely could have been reached to send all Blacks back to Africa. President Lincoln looked favorably on such a plan even after the war.

Without the slavery issue, the warmongers probably wouldn't have been able to get a war started. But Southerners who wanted to keep the institution of slavery for purely economic reasons put these economic reasons ahead of the racial interests of their people. They didn't understand the degree to which their racial interests were threatened. And so we had a bloody and destructive civil war, and even worse -- much worse -- we failed to solve the racial problem when it might have been solved with relatively little trauma.

So today we have a racial catastrophe in both the North and the South, and the Jews are pumping their lies and filth into all of us every day. And instead of focusing on these real problems, most of us let ourselves be distracted by utterly inconsequential issues such as Elian Gonzales and where the Confederate flag can be flown.

I'll go over that again: reality is that we are being pushed rapidly toward racial extinction. Reality is that the Jews are controlling the minds of a majority of our people for the specific purpose of keeping us headed toward extinction. Those are the real problems which we must deal with. Forget about Elian Gonzales and Fidel Castro and the Confederate flag. Forget about ball games and the economy and whether a Democratic crook or a Republican crook should be elected later this year. Think about racial survival and racial freedom; that's all that matters. Really, nothing else counts in the least.

That's why you hear some repetition if you listen to many of my broadcasts. I keep coming back to the important things over and over again. Of course, I do talk about many inconsequential things as well. I use them as illustrations, as examples, which help us understand better the important things. And I also talk about unimportant things because I must consider my audience. I must talk about the things the members of my audience believe to be important so that I can catch their interest and then lead them to the truly important things.

Here's an example which ties in again to the Civil War. A lot of men -- overaged kids, really -- like to play soldier. They like to reenact various historic battles, and Civil War battles are among their favorites. They like to get out on the battlefield and pretend that they are members of real military units of the past -- such as my great-great-grandfather's 17th Alabama Infantry Regiment -- and then they fire blanks at each other and maneuver around as they imagine it actually happened. They pride themselves greatly on the authenticity of their uniforms and equipment. They will spend thousands of dollars for various bits and pieces of uniforms, and they will pore over old dispatches and memoirs to make sure that they've got all of the details right -- all of the details except one, that is: the mindset of the soldiers who actually fought the real battles. Talk to one of these Confederate make-believe soldiers sometime. The first thing he will assure you is that the fact he likes to play soldier in a Confederate uniform doesn't mean he is a racist. No, no, no! Far from it! In fact, he will try to persuade you that the real Confederate soldiers weren't racists either, but instead were models of Political Correctness. Fake ammunition and fake beliefs. No more integrity or honesty than most of the supporters of the Confederate flag. They cling to the trivial and deny the important.

I really have to hold my tongue when I talk with these people. But I do talk with them. An interest in history certainly is a healthier sign than no interest in history. So I talk with some of these make-believe soldiers about military history, and sometimes the conversation can be steered into more important matters...
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C.E. Whiteoak

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Re: Are Southerners the reason American WN is failing?

PostFri Jan 23, 2015 11:11 pm

Dr. Pierce said, "They cling to the trivial and deny the important."

Dr. Pierce certainly had a way of digging right in to where the truth is, and those words are no exception.

I was for several years a member of the League of the South, and also a member of the secessionist (and now mostly defunct) Southern Party, although the Southern Party was never really more than a political action committee in North Carolina, it got registered as a party in Georgia, and has run candidates on occasion there, but it is apparent by now that it is not going anywhere.

Members of these groups are generally more mature and realistic than the play-acting re-enactor bunch, but few if any have the moral courage to openly address the race issue. Furthermore, any mildly critical remark about Jews is sure to make the room grow colder than an arctic ice cave.

These are the reasons why I am no longer a member of either organization.

Benjamin Bice

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Re: Are Southerners the reason American WN is failing?

PostSat Jan 24, 2015 4:19 am

I posted on VNN forum a few times about a year-and-a-half ago, and I was immediately greeted with attack posts by several of their members. It seems they already knew who I was from other forums. They already knew that I am no Linder fan. I only post on two forums now and keep my identity secret on one of them.
The NA will be great now that it is in the right hands. Will Williams and Kevin Alfred Strom are the only two prominent WNers that I would want to work with, because they are the only two that I both like and think they have the right ideas.
Professor of Anti-White Discrimination and Racial Hypocrisy


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Are Southerners More Likely To Be Christians?

PostWed Jan 18, 2017 2:28 pm

For thousands of years, Jew-worship and lies have been destroying the White race/civilization, and the pride that it needs in order to survive and to propagate itself.
Deuteronomy 7:24 King James Version (KJV)
"And he shall deliver their kings into thine hand, and thou shalt destroy their name from under heaven: there shall no man be able to stand before thee, until thou have destroyed them."
Devarim 7:24 Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
"And He shall deliver their melachim into thine hand, and thou shalt destroy their shem from under Shomayim; there shall no man be able to stand before thee, until thou have destroyed them."

Jim Mathias

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Re: Are Southerners the reason American WN is failing?

PostThu Feb 09, 2017 12:19 am

Where I am at in Iowa it is painfully aware that our race is failing itself. It seems that for White girls, having a niglet or three is the latest fashion that's been pumped into them by a thoroughly jewed mass communications structure. So it cannot be a Southern problem.

No, I think it is an "us" problem, meaning all Whites are responsible for this. We had not taken the time to think out why we should live, what are we all about, how do we get to there from here and inculcate this into each and every one of us. Fortunately, Dr. Pierce and the National Alliance have done a marvelous job of providing answers to these questions through the National Vanguard Books publishing arm as well as outreach efforts made by each and every member who has lifted a finger for our cause.

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