Ayn Rand and Government Assistance

Informal discussions
User avatar
Wade Hampton III
Posts: 2157
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:40 pm
Location: Pontiac, SC

Re: Ayn Rand and Government Assistance

Post by Wade Hampton III » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:45 pm

Site of the former College Early Learning/New Banner Institute. When viewing
this image, one seems to get the eerie feeling of a long-deserted battleground.
I suppose in a way, it really is. Who could possibly number the lives that were
exploited, ruined, and shattered that took place here? Only one solution...send
Ayn Rand and all that is Israel back across the River Styx where they belong.
Distilled Judaism
Distilled Judaism
48949.JPG (200.64 KiB) Viewed 3491 times

User avatar
Wade Hampton III
Posts: 2157
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:40 pm
Location: Pontiac, SC

Re: Ayn Rand and Government Assistance

Post by Wade Hampton III » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:34 pm

After recovery from splitting my sides with laughter, I hand to
think whether or not to put this item in the "Humor" section of
the site...


...especially about the "Net Worth $2M" of the bankrupt New
Banner Institute, Inc! However, in order to do that, I would
risk losing context...

:lol: :lol:

Really folks! This bird really needs to change his name to
"Jim," and start passing out Kool-Aid!!
$2M Lot?
$2M Lot?
53094.JPG (33.56 KiB) Viewed 3278 times

User avatar
Wade Hampton III
Posts: 2157
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:40 pm
Location: Pontiac, SC

Re: Ayn Rand and Government Assistance

Post by Wade Hampton III » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:50 am

What was Ayn Rand wrong about?

Pete Bertine, studied Objectivism at American Renaissance
Answered 19h ago · Upvoted by Alexey Godin, Ph.D. Mathematics
& Economics, Moscow State University (1998) and Ingrid Harris,
Ph.D. Existential Phenomenology & Hermeneutics, Philosophy (1996)
53328.jpg (52.15 KiB) Viewed 3209 times
As a malignant narcissist, Ayn Rand was wrong about everything - she
literally wrote science fiction. I should know, I went to a high school
founded by Objectivists, The American Renaissance School, in 1987. I was
indoctrinated with her pseudo-philosophy for 2 years. I was critical of
her work and was bullied. When I innocently said her novels were science
fiction, the professors cried foul, threw erasers at me, and - as punishment
to dare to compare her to such a lowly genre - I was rudely nicknamed, "The
Mule," after the malignant character in Issac Asimov's science fiction
"Foundation" novels…
53327.JPG (42.15 KiB) Viewed 3209 times

User avatar
Wade Hampton III
Posts: 2157
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:40 pm
Location: Pontiac, SC

Re: Ayn Rand and Government Assistance

Post by Wade Hampton III » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:05 pm

Jews fighting Jews - a paradoy of Randian Jewish infighting and replication....
Another Jew
Another Jew
54438.jpg (32.23 KiB) Viewed 3009 times

User avatar
Wade Hampton III
Posts: 2157
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:40 pm
Location: Pontiac, SC

Re: Ayn Rand and Government Assistance

Post by Wade Hampton III » Tue May 08, 2018 5:11 pm

Steve Hathway, (who posted) I have studied the writing of Ayn Rand for 25 yrs.
Steve Hathway, (who posted) I have studied the writing of Ayn Rand for 25 yrs.

I have studied Objectivism for 25 yrs, reading Ayn Rand’s fiction and non-fiction.
I’ve further read and listened to lectures by some of those who carry on her
tradition (some of which you can find here for free: ARI Campus). There are
two main reasons I continue to study her ideas. First, every-time I’ve investigated
a claim she has made, it turned out to be correct. Second, philosophy is the
science that teaches man how live his life and make choices. No other philosophy
does this.

Point 1: Every Claim Proved True

I recall reading her claim that the Founding Fathers explicitly rejected only one
form of government - Democracy! Democracy!? Really?, I thought. There is no way
that could be true. But reading the Federalist Papers, there it was. In a
different essay, she described the pattern socialist and communist governments
tend to follow. So, I researched that claim by reading about Italian, Russian
and German history leading up to WWII. Damn if she wasn't right. I watch with
fascination as Venezuela follows the exact same pattern. This and other examples
convinced me that her ideas applied directly to larger societal issues.

Point 2: A Philosophy for Living

Ayn Rand taught me that philosophy is a science for living on this earth. Yea,
like most, that sentence sounded crazy at the time - Philosophy, who needs it,
right? What I came to understand is that most philosophies or ethical ideas we
encounter today are impossible to follow with rigor. Everyone understands that
and as such we all harbor a cynicism towards philosophy. Most ethical values
boil down to others. Your moral standing is to be judged based on what you
contribute to others, what you do for others. Do you volunteer at a soup kitchen?
If you answer yes then you get a gold star. But you can always do more, can’t you?
Tutor a child at the local school. Give money to a charity. With each contribution
you gain moral points. But at some point you must provide for yourself. You have
to earn a living, get an education, provide for your family. There is a limit to
what you can sacrifice for this type of morality. The harder you practice it the
worse off your own life becomes. This is the root of the cynicism you feel when
you utter “philosophy, who needs it?” Rand started her ideas from a very different
perspective. The base of her philosophy is a question - WHY does man need philosophy?
Not “which” philosophy, but ANY philosophy. Is it really necessary? The answer to
“why” comes from our nature. Man is required to make decisions in order to survive.
We cannot make proper decisions without guidance. We could rely on society to
provide guidance or just follow conventional wisdom, but that is the cheap way
out. It makes you a slave to the opinions others. And that is not true to human
nature. Man has a mind which is his only means of survival. Rand teaches that
you must use it to make your own decisions, not to mimic the thoughts and
actions of others. This is the answer to the second question, yes it is necessary.
Too many are introduced to Objectivism through its application to politics.
Political conclusions reached by applying Objectivism are counter to the popular
notions of how government should work and society should be structured . Without
an understanding of the foundation and underpinnings, it is difficult to understand
how Objectivist ideals apply. But Objectivism is mostly a philosophy for improving
yourself. The great thing is that it is practical. The more you apply it to your
life and the more consistently you practice it, the better your life becomes. And
it is also very difficult to practice consisently. That is why I continue to study
and learn.
Jewess Any Rand
Jewess Any Rand
54654.jpg (53.32 KiB) Viewed 2831 times
Wade says, "Well, here it all is, guys and girls. David Kennison (see earlier posts
in the thread) could have posted something as "eloquent(?)" as this had he not
been more preoccupied with the money and the women. So, I leave it to you, my
fellow compatriots....responses anyone?

User avatar
Wade Hampton III
Posts: 2157
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:40 pm
Location: Pontiac, SC

Re: Ayn Rand and Government Assistance

Post by Wade Hampton III » Wed May 09, 2018 3:24 am

What are the flaws of Ayn Rand's philosophy?

Geoffrey Widdison, Chemical Engineer (2006-present)...

Ooooooh, so many.

The simple answer, though is that she's fundamentally wrong about human beings
and how they operate. She constantly portrays the human race as being divided
into an undifferentiated mass of moist-eyed, whiny losers, and practically
omnipotent elites who actually make everything happen. In her view of the
world, the supermen who run the world could be plunked down in any wilderness
and would, in a matter of years, create a technologically advanced society out
of the dirt with their bare hands, while still having time to compose new symphonies
in the evenings. While the unwashed masses, deprived of their social betters,
would collapse into a morass of hopelessness and helplessness. And that's not
an exaggeration either, that's literally the plot of "Atlas Shrugged".

The simple truth is that people don't work like that. There's a broad spectrum of
humanity, some of whom are lazy, shiftless and entitled, and others who are hard
-working, innovative and selfless. And in between those extremes are people at
every level, who fall onto a pretty normal bell curve. If the most capable one
percent vanished into the wilderness, there would be a long line of people behind
them, nearly as capable, and more than willing to take over their jobs, salaries,
stock options and social prominence. While the previously wealthy would very quickly
get sick of having to till the earth with their bare hands instead of running large
companies and making huge amounts of money.

The idea that the elite of society would rather live a pastoral life, because at
least no one's telling them what to do is laugh-out-loud funny to me. As is the
claim that any of those type-A alpha dogs would be more than happy to see someone
more capable come along and out-compete them, because all they want is for the best
person to succeed. That's weapons-grade BS. Most people who are highly successful
want to stay successful, and more competition rarely makes them happy. And most
people who are rich like being rich, and have no interest in spending their lives
on manual labor.

Ayn Rand, largely due to her own life history, has a very understandable hatred of
communism, and a fear of it taking root in some form and knocking down human achievement.
In that aspect, she's entirely right. She's also right that automatic resentment of
wealth and success is unhealthy. Some people are just smarter, harder working and
more capable than others, and that should absolutely be rewarded. The problem is
that she sees every kind of regulation and intervention as Soviet communism come
back to life. And she assumes that, left to their own devices, the rich will always
do the right thing. That's a big, huge, ugly blind spot in how she sees the world,
and she has zero interest in correcting it.

Honestly, unlike a lot of people, I actually enjoy her novels, and I feel that she
has some good points. But her philosophy is both unrealistic and extreme. In my
experience, it appeals to people who really want it to be true, because they want
to believe that they're part of the special elite being held back by the "moochers",
and that's the only reason they're not successful, happy or respected. But it's
wise to be suspicious of anyone who makes their living by telling you that you're
Vampire In Daylight Clothing
Vampire In Daylight Clothing
54654.jpg (53.32 KiB) Viewed 2824 times

User avatar
Wade Hampton III
Posts: 2157
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:40 pm
Location: Pontiac, SC

Re: Ayn Rand and Government Assistance

Post by Wade Hampton III » Sun May 13, 2018 7:22 pm

Jared Rhoads, jaredrhoads.com
Updated Mar 8, 2013...asks...

I have read The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand. Is it necessary/worth it to
read Atlas Shrugged? Does it offer new insights?


You asked whether if you read The Fountainhead and then read Atlas Shrugged,
you would be re-reading her philosophy. The short answer is no; The Fountainhead
is a relatively compact story with a narrow scope, whereas Atlas Shrugged involves
and integrates much wider range of ideas. Of course there are some similarities
between the books in terms of literary style, as one would expect to find in any
two books by the same author, but no, it is not a re-read.
Kennison Wants More Money
Kennison Wants More Money
54671.jpg (44.19 KiB) Viewed 2642 times
More to the point, though, don't think that by reading The Fountainhead, you've
read some sort of comprehensive survey of her philosophy. Although there is
nothing wrong with reading The Fountainhead and stopping there if you don't
enjoy her fiction, you cannot do that if you intend to discuss and comment on
her philosophy intelligently. So if your plan is to invoke her ideas in a paper
for philosophy class, or in a newspaper op-ed, or in the comments section of
some blog, or in a YouTube video, etc., then yes, you must read more than just
The Fountainhead. You simply cannot get an adequate grasp of her views--much
less her reasoning for those views--on issues in politics, economics, art, and
so on, from just that book. Indeed, even she was still forming her philosophy
at the time that she published that book.

If you do start criticizing her ideas without reading more of her own works,
then you'll almost certainly make the mistake of misrepresenting her ideas.
This is especially the case if you rely on the way most people present her
ideas in the popular press and online, which unfortunately is incorrect more
often than not. You'll become one of the many, many people out there who
attack what they think she said or wrote rather than what she actually said
or wrote.

You said you do not like to read very much, but it sounds like you might be
somewhat interested in learning more about her philosophy. My advice, then,
is to pick up one or two of her shorter non-fiction books, which are
collections of short essays. Philosophy: Who Needs It is a good starter.
You could also try For the New Intellectual, which includes some excerpts
from her novels, or if you are interested in politics/economics, Capitalism:
The Unknown Ideal.

User avatar
Wade Hampton III
Posts: 2157
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:40 pm
Location: Pontiac, SC

Re: Ayn Rand and Government Assistance

Post by Wade Hampton III » Tue May 29, 2018 2:56 am

If a person continues to reject Ayn Rand's objectivism after it is logically
explained to them, are they evil to a certain extent?

Will Thomas, I teach, write, and speak about Objectivism, the philosophy founded
by Ayn Rand....Answered May 17.

Objectivism’s view of evil is that it is, in essence, the willful evasion of facts.
Now, since Objectivism is an abstract philosophy with many inductive claims about
broad areas of life, existence, morality, politics, etc., it is quite possible to
not agree with all of its claims without engaging in evasion.

People’s lives are lived in the concrete, and so if things are going well in the
areas that matter, such as friendship and love, job success, material well-being
and health, etc, a person might reasonably think it is not worth their time to
study abstract philosophy and religion, which is what studying Objectivism amounts
to. Also, not all logical explanations are equal. Teaching is an art because it
isn’t easy to convey non-obvious facts to others. So you shouldn’t assume that
your logical explanation is sufficient.

Finally, quite a few self-described Objectivists are nebbishes, more impressive
in talking the talk than walking the walk. So it isn’t obvious to the outside
observer that mastering or avowing Objectivism will lead to success. That said,
many people who reject basic ideas of Objectivism, such as the goodness of living
to be happy, or the need to reason objectively, are evil in that they evade the
facts of life. And they, and people they interact with, often suffer for it.
Evidence: the Islamic State. And there are many other examples.
Randian Magic Carpet Ride
Randian Magic Carpet Ride
55000.jpg (114.42 KiB) Viewed 2455 times

User avatar
Wade Hampton III
Posts: 2157
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:40 pm
Location: Pontiac, SC

Re: Ayn Rand and Government Assistance

Post by Wade Hampton III » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:30 am

Are followers of Ayn Rand true libertarians?

Stefan Cuevas, Individualist anarchist, Mutualist, answered Jan 9th...

No, followers of Ayn Rand are Objectivists (cultists) which are people
who follow a personal philosophy with a scope that encompasses much more
than politics, and which has some premises that are irreconcilable with
those held by most (if not all) concepts of libertarianism. This doesn’t
mean libertarians can’t appreciate some or even most of Rand’s purported
political values, such as: individual liberty, freedom of association,
non-interference in people’s personal lives, self-worth, opposition to
sacrifice, etc. This would just be an investment in Rand less than implied
by the word “follower.” As for whether or not Objectivists are especially
authoritarian, I don’t think so.

Wade says, "I disagree. See earlier posts on this thread."

They are probably less authoritarian than most people in many ways, just
not necessarily libertarians.
Her holiness
Her holiness
55297.jpg (39.6 KiB) Viewed 2274 times

User avatar
Wade Hampton III
Posts: 2157
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:40 pm
Location: Pontiac, SC

Re: Ayn Rand and Government Assistance

Post by Wade Hampton III » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:50 pm

Sociology Of The Ayn Rand Cult, by Murray Rothbard.

Rothbard's parents were David and Rae Rothbard, Jewish immigrants to
the United States from Poland and Russia, respectively.

Conflict with Ayn Rand:

In 1954, Rothbard, along with several other attendees of Mises' seminar,
joined the circle of novelist Ayn Rand, the founder of Objectivism. He
soon parted from her, writing among other things that her ideas were not
as original as she proclaimed, but similar to those of Aristotle, Thomas
Aquinas and Herbert Spencer. In 1958, after the publication of Rand's
novel Atlas Shrugged, Rothbard wrote a "fan letter" to her, calling the
book "an infinite treasure house" and "not merely the greatest novel ever
written, [but] one of the very greatest books ever written, fiction or
nonfiction". He also wrote: "[Y]ou introduced me to the whole field of
natural rights and natural law philosophy", prompting him to learn "the
glorious natural rights tradition". Rothbard rejoined Rand's circle for
a few months, but he soon broke with Rand once more over various
differences, including his defense of anarchism.

Later, Rothbard satirized Rand's acolytes in his unpublished one-act play
Mozart Was a Red written as a farce and the essay "The Sociology of the
Ayn Rand Cult". Rothbard characterized Rand's circle as a "dogmatic,
personality cult". His play parodies Rand (through the character Carson
Sand) and her friends and is set during a visit from Keith Hackley, a
fan of Sand's novel The Brow of Zeus (a play on Rand's most famous novel,
Atlas Shrugged).
Do As I say Not As I Do
Do As I say Not As I Do
55377.JPG (98.98 KiB) Viewed 2208 times
http://rothbard.altervista.org/essays/t ... d-cult.pdf

Post Reply