Poetry of Rudyard Kipling

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CraigRes

Re: Poetry of Rudyard Kipling

Post by CraigRes » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:12 am

Kipling was a fascinating figure. I discovered his poetry at a relatively young age. It really grew on me as I was getting older and understood more and more of it.

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Will Williams
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Re: Poetry of Rudyard Kipling

Post by Will Williams » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:17 am


Poem by 'racist' Rudyard Kipling
scrubbed off university wall by students

Published time: 19 Jul, 2018

A poem by renowned 19th century writer Rudyard Kipling has been scrubbed off the walls of a university student union amid claims his literature “dehumanised people of colour” and that he was an apologist for British colonialism.
Students, who claimed the poem went against what their union stood for, replaced Kipling’s ‘If’ with US civil rights activist Maya Angelou’s ‘Still I Rise’ at Manchester University’s student union.
Image
Barack Obama's Negro Poet Laureat Maya Angelo
Kipling’s poem was put up as part of the union’s refurbishment, but Sara Khan, the liberation and access officer, said students should have been consulted beforehand.

“We, as an exec team, believe that Kipling stands for the opposite of liberation, empowerment, and human rights – the things that we, as an SU [student union], stand for,” Khan wrote in a Facebook post.
“Well-known as author of the racist poem ‘The White Man’s Burden’, and a plethora of other work that sought to legitimate the British Empire’s presence in India and dehumanise people of colour, it is deeply inappropriate to promote the work of Kipling in our SU, which is named after prominent South African anti-Apartheid activist, Steve Biko.

Britain is not racist, Meghan Markle proves it’ - argues white, Etonian, neocon Douglas Murray
“As a statement on the reclamation of history by those who have been oppressed by the likes of Kipling for so many centuries, and continue to be to this day, we replaced his words with those of the legendary Maya Angelou, a black female poet and civil rights activist.”

Manchester University declined to comment saying it was a matter concerning the SU.

A spokesman for Manchester's SU said, according to the Telegraph: "We understand that we made a mistake in our approach to a recent piece of artwork by failing to garner student opinion at the start of a new project. We accept that the result was inappropriate and for that we apologize."

Kipling was popular at the beginning of the 1900s for his children’s literature and short stories, becoming the youngest recipient of the Nobel Prize for Literature in 1907.

His reputation was later mired, however, by claims his literature had racist overtones, with ‘1984’ author George Orwell branding him “morally insensitive" and a “prophet of British imperialism”.
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https://www.rt.com/uk/433681-rudyard-ki ... niversity/
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Jim Mathias
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Re: Poetry of Rudyard Kipling

Post by Jim Mathias » Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:45 pm

Those who have a copy of The Best of Attack! and National Vanguard may recall seeing this there:

"Song of the Fifth River"


WHERE first by Eden Tree
The Four Great Rivers ran,
To each was appointed a Man
Her Prince and Ruler to be.

But after this was ordained
(The ancient legends' tell),
There came dark Israel,
For whom no River remained.

Then He Whom the Rivers obey
Said to him: "Fling on the ground
A handful of yellow clay,
And a Fifth Great River shall run,
Mightier than these Four,
In secret the Earth around;
And Her secret evermore,
Shall be shown to thee and thy Race."

So it was said and done.
And, deep in the veins of Earth,
And, fed by a thousand springs
That comfort the market-place,
Or sap the power of King,
The Fifth Great River had birth,
Even as it was foretold -
The Secret River of Gold!

And Israel laid down
His sceptre and his crown,
To brood on that River bank
Where the waters flashed and sank
And burrowed in earth and fell
And bided a season below,
For reason that none might know,
Save only Israel.

He is Lord of the Last -
The Fifth, most wonderful, Flood.
He hears Her thunder past
And Her Song is in his blood.
He can foresay: "She will fall,"
For he knows which fountain dries
Behind which desert-belt
A thousand leagues to the South.
He can foresay: "She will rise."
He knows what far snows melt
Along what mountain-wall
A thousand leagues to the North,
He snuffs the coming drouth
As he snuffs the coming rain,
He knows what each will bring forth,
And turns it to his gain.

A Ruler without a Throne,
A Prince without a Sword,
Israel follows his quest.
In every land a guest,
Of many lands a lord,
In no land King is he.
But the Fifth Great River keeps
The secret of Her deeps
For Israel alone,
As it was ordered to be.
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Blueyesopen
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Re: Poetry of Rudyard Kipling

Post by Blueyesopen » Tue Jul 04, 2023 1:27 am

Idk this one thanks! He has panache, swagger! A Great White Man of letters!

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fluxmaster
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Re: Poetry of Rudyard Kipling

Post by fluxmaster » Tue Jul 04, 2023 8:42 am

I love Kipling. In addition to all of the above, here's one of my favorite Kipling poems:

As I pass through my incarnations in every age and race,
I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market-Place.
Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.

We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turn
That Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:
But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,
So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.

We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,
Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,
But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would come
That a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.

With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch.
They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch.
They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings.
So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.

When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.
They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.
But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."

On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."

In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."

Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew,
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four—
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.

As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man—
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began:—
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;

And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!

One thing I don't understand about Kipling is why he wrote the poem Mandalay. It seems to promote miscegenation and go against everything else he ever wrote. What was he thinking when he wrote that poem?

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Will Williams
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Re: Poetry of Rudyard Kipling

Post by Will Williams » Thu Jul 06, 2023 7:15 pm

Will Williams wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:17 am

Poem by 'racist' Rudyard Kipling
scrubbed off university wall by students

Published time: 19 Jul, 2018

A poem by renowned 19th century writer Rudyard Kipling has been scrubbed off the walls of a university student union amid claims his literature “dehumanised people of colour” and that he was an apologist for British colonialism.
Students, who claimed the poem went against what their union stood for, replaced Kipling’s ‘If’ with US civil rights activist Maya Angelou’s scribblings.
Image
Barack Obama's Negro Poet Laureat Maya Angelo
The PC crowd haven't scrubbed part of Rudyard's "If" from the Wimbledon tennis arena that's being played again this week. If is a poem for White men, so, yes, indeed, it is racist.

Rudyard Kipling was an English poet who lived from 1865-1936. He also wrote many children's stories. The poem's line, "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster and treat those two impostors just the same," is written on the wall of the players' entrance at Wimbledon.

If
By Rudyard Kipling

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same:.
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build'em up with worn-out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings,
And never breathe a word about your loss:
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
---

More About The Poem "If" and Rudyard Kipling
Were you to write the biography of Rudyard Kipling as a graph, the first thing that would strike you would be the steep vertical zigzags. The chart would have to start on a high point: his birth in India to a loving set of parents. His childhood would continue for a short period along an upward slope in the wonderland where he was born, and then plunge dramatically at the age of six when he was sent to England for his education. His first five years in England were scarred by the terrible abuse he endured there from his foster mother. His only break during that period was the holiday month of December, when he would head to London to stay with his mother's family. After that period he was transferred to a school in Devon where he shone, becoming the editor of the school paper and embarking on his path as a writer, becoming a major success.

He was struck by misfortune once more when the bank where he kept his savings collapsed, leaving him penniless. He moved to America and continued writing, publishing The Jungle Books together with much else. He again hit a low when he became embroiled in a fight with his brother-in-law, which landed both in court and in local papers, forcing his move back to England. On a trip to America in 1899 his daughter Josephine died of pneumonia at the age of seven, leaving him heartbroken. The wheel continued to turn, however, and in 1907 he was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature for his outstanding work. An avowed proponent of British involvement in World War One, he encouraged his son John to enlist. When he failed the physical, Kipling used his connections to get him in, only to watch him die in the battle for Loos leaving him awash in guilt.

His life was one replete with trials, hardships, and sorrows, which one could never fault anyone for crumbling beneath, but time and time again he overcame. This poem, published three years after he won the Nobel Prize, encapsulates the lessons he learned and considered to be the keys to his success. Part of it is engraved on the entrance to Wimbledon to remind players of what it is that makes a man.
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